n Cosd: In defense of God’s right to exist outside of Logic

Tuesday, May 17, 2005

In defense of God’s right to exist outside of Logic

This is a response to arguments presented by Vexen Crabtree from the UK. The arguments can be found at this site. He divides his arguments into two sections:

Section 1. Logic as a property of the Universe – Logic is more powerful than God.
The arguments he presents in this section make no sense and hold no traction if one believes that God can exist outside of logic, or transcends logic. They sound like the same tired old arguments that the idea of omnipotence and other Godly qualities do not make logical sense, and these arguments are not worth commenting on.

Section 2. God ‘outside’ of logic
Vexen puts forth three arguments against the idea that God can be outside logic (his arguments in yellow).
(1) If “Human logic” is insufficient for metaphysics then debating for the existence of God is silly. Okay. Because it is by Human logic, thought and mentality that we arrive at the concept of God in the first place.
So, what you’re trying to say is that if our logic will never be enough to explain God, then why are we even having this conversation? Or, moreover, the assertion that God is beyond logic negates my ability to logically defend God? I don’t buy this line of argument. I think it is entirely possible to have a logical conversation about something unbound by the rules of logic. I’m still waiting to be convinced otherwise.

(2) To say that God doesn’t obey logical rules, to say God could create a round square, for example, is to say that the abilities of God are abilities that cannot logically exist.
Sure, that could be true of some of his abilities. Maybe some of his abilities cannot logically exist (and do anyway). Also, having abilities that cannot logically exist does not entail the lack of abilities that can logically exist (God can have both / everything).

(3) “Beyond logic” is a synonym for “irrational” and admissions of beliefs that are beyond logic is admission that such beliefs are irrational and logically indefensible.
Rational: consistent, or based on reason; logical.
Irrational: not endowed with reason; not rational.
“Beyond logic” is NOT synonymous with “irrational”. Especially when you use the definition of irrational I supplied above. God can be endowed with reason and be rational. "Beyond logic" has nothing to do with being irrational. Or rather, my definition of "beyond logic" includes logic (Logic +).

My Set Theory Explanation. If all things “logical” are contained in a Set A, and all things “beyond logic” are contained in Set B. Then Set A is a subset of Set B. God is Set B, things both logical, and beyond logic. Vexen seems to be under the illusion that Set A and Set B are mutually exclusive - that you have to be one or the other. This is wrong. God can be, and likely is (if he exists), both.

In any event… Feel free to jump into the debate (and tell me if/where I’m right or wrong).

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